In my previous post I wrote: ‘White nationalism is an impossible chimera between truths and lies, between courage and cowardice, light and darkness’. This abridged article by Carolyn Yeager on Kevin MacDonald supports my claim.
Kevin Macdonald recently participated in a videocast of “Torah Talk” with Luke Ford, a non-Jewish student of Torah and Talmud, and two young friends or students of his. It lasted one hour and 50 minutes and resulted in some interesting insights into Kevin’s limitations as a leading White Nationalist voice.
MacDonald was taken by surprise with the first question asked of him: What are your thoughts about holocaust revisionism?
Yeah, um, I guess I’m not, uh, I’ve never had any sympathy really, before—I, I haven’t seen, I haven’t seen anything that I would really, you know, convince me. And I have—frankly, I haven’t dealt into it very much. My view is that it’s not important for what I’m doing and I don’t think it’s really important—I, I think what’s really important is the culture of the holocaust, you know how it’s taught in school, how it’s used to defend Israel, and it’s used as a weapon against people who oppose immigration, and all those things—ah I think those are very important things to discuss. So whether it actually happened, exactly [slurs some words] and all that is something that I don’t think uh is possible to even go there anymore, is just… just uh… third rail.
Hey, wait a minute! Is this the reputedly brilliant professor of evolutionary psychology speaking??? This sounds not only downright dumb but also evasive as hell.
- I’ve never had any sympathy
- Never seen anything that convinced me
- Don’t think it’s really important
- Haven’t dealt into it very much (weakening the above three comments, if not nullifying them altogether)
- Not possible to “go there anymore”
Not possible to go there anymore? But then he adds… “third rail.” He should have added the word “comfortably”—it’s not possible to go there comfortably, without putting oneself at risk. By that he signals premature defeat: The Jews have won on this and we have to allow them their victory. It’s too late to do anything about it. The price exacted is too high. By calling it “third rail” he’s dubbing it too dangerous, too highly charged for any sensible man to approach.
Are these brave men or foolish men? Kevin clearly considers them foolish, and maybe not too bright. He’s saying that what he’s doing is important but what they’re doing is not important.
- What’s really important is the culture of the Holocaust
But wait a minute! If the Holocaust didn’t happen, how can a “culture” of it exist? Or the trappings of such a culture be justified? So he obviously thinks the Holocaust did happen, or believes he must accept that presumption, but doesn’t want to come right out and say so. Because? Because so many listening to him would argue with him about it.
I’m afraid we have caught our evolutionary psychologist in a posture of dishonesty here. I know it has been our position to give Kevin a free pass on this subject, one that goes like this: He has shown so much courage in standing up to the accusations of antisemitism at his university; if he doesn’t want to get into even more trouble over “holocaust denial,” he certainly doesn’t have to. That was a position I myself took back when I had an Internet radio show on which he was a guest four times. I did not even bring it up.
But now he is retired and it is only his professional reputation at stake, not his job. And he is being asked these questions and he is answering them (see here). And I have revised my thinking about giving others so much leeway to think as they want about it. We need all hands on deck on this issue. In Kevin’s case though, I think it would be better were he to simply say, “I’ve made it my practice not to speak about this topic which I have not studied,” and leave it at that, rather than put forth uninformed opinions as he’s doing. Of course, that would be wimpy but at least not dishonest.
But perhaps he’s afraid that would cause his peers to suspect him of being a secret denier, which he clearly does not want. So instead he hems and haws around about “importance”—that the “culture of the Holocaust” has importance while the “happening of the Holocaust” doesn’t.
That’s an odd position. Maybe we can find some insight into his thought process in his answer to the next question asked him: What are your personal feelings toward Hitler?
Toward who? Oh God, I think that the only term I can use is a disaster. I think that his own personality—I just don’t know much about it but I think his own personality got in the way of them carrying out their strategic military [goals?] in World War Two. I think he was, you know, he thought of himself as a general or something. You know, he interfered with policy that should have been left to professionals and I think that that was a—you know, that was horrible, that was a disaster. There are a lot of other things, but uh, so I think that he is not the ideal person to be in that situation.
- Hitler was a disaster
- Don’t know much about it
- Interfered with military policy
His reactions toward Hitler are more vehement than toward Holocaust. They reflect the standard Anglo narrative that Hitler bungled the war, that his generals despised him, he was a flawed personality who all by himself created the disaster that occurred in Germany. No fault is directed toward Jews, or the Allied collusion with Major Jewish Organizations, or the German traitors (including in the Wehrmacht) who conspired to defeat their own country and turn as many people as possible away from their leader. As MacDonald said, he doesn’t know much about it, but the “common American wisdom”, the national narrative, is good enough for him. But then he has a few second thoughts:
But you know, having said that, if you look at the old newsreels from 1930’s in Germany, you know, the people loved Hitler and he really managed to develop a sense of sort of a very unified, culturally unified nation. Uh, they were really on page with this, and I think that was an incredible accomplishment. It’s just unfortunate how they used it, what happened in the end. Just a disaster. I-I think that is the—the, uh, the result of the Second World War is uh has essentially given us the war that we’re in now. I think the triumph of the Left is the result of WWII. I think uh is also um critically important for the rise of Jewish influence. And that is what is now with us. And can’t be undone.
- Hitler was loved by the people
- Unified the nation
- Incredible accomplishments
- The war was a disaster
Amazing. Kevin goes from admiring how Hitler unified the nation, an incredible feat, directly to the misuse of it, though he doesn’t explain how they misused it. Apparently by going to war. As though Hitler could have avoided war, with Stalin plotting to his east and Roosevelt plotting from the west (see the Potoki Papers). For some reason (we know what it is), he accepts the non-mention of the Jews behind the scenes in all this. MacDonald’s simplified history credits the triumph of the Left and the rise of Jewish influence (which are one and the same) as being brought about by Hitler’s ‘disastrous’ war. Does he have any idea how strong the Left was in Germany when Hitler started? It was an actual revolution that resulted in a communist government for a time in Bavaria!
Jews were already in a strong position since WWI. So our Kevin is not much of an historian of this period and, here again, should be answering, “I don’t know.”
The final questions in this series are:
What kind of world do you think we would have if the Axis had won?
It’s impossible to know. I uh I just don know. If the Axis had won, if they crushed the Soviet Union and then occupied Britain, um there probably would have been a stand off at that point. And then I do think it would have been bad for the Jews, in Europe, if that had happened. But I don’t think Europe would be overrun as it is now with all these non-Whites. I think Europe would have remained a White, Christian-based civilization if that had happened. I—That’s my best guess.
- Bad for Jews
- Europe still a White, Christian-based civilization
It sounds like he wishes the Axis had won and now blames Hitler for failing to pull it off.
Do you think there is any hope for Europe at this point, or what do you think would have to happen to fix the situation?
For Europe? You’d have to have a complete change in mental outlook, uh you’d have to have the political will to do something. They could still do something but it’s getting, you know, they don’t and it just keeps getting worse and worse. And I think everybody go—you know, the popular opinion polls do reflect anxiety about it, concern, uh, and yet they can’t seem to vote in a government that will actually do something.
So until that happens… um… they could still do it, I mean the percentages of Muslims in France and the West German countries in Europe (sic) are still pretty small. They could do something. They could just deport. Really, I mean a lot of them have no right to be there. The so-called refugees, they can go back to wherever they came from. They can repatriate these people. It just takes a political will which they are a very long way from being there.
So until that happens, it’s just going to fester and there’s going to be more and more anxiety, and more and more disillusion with these elites… But, I’m amazed at the staying power of… it did look with Brexit, Trump victory and now… but then you see you’ve got the victory of Macron in France, so… and Wilders got defeated very badly in the Netherlands, the Swedish government doesn’t seem to be going away. It looks like Merkel’s going to win in Germany, so it doesn’t look (chuckles wryly) that anything’s really changed.
- Need complete change in mental outlook
- No mention of removing Jews
- No political will even for removing Muslims
- Voters falling short
Notice he doesn’t mention anything about Jews as a problem, only Muslims. Is that a problem with mental outlook? He said later in the program, speaking of white nationalists he approves of (like Jared Taylor)—when they get together they “don’t talk about gas chambers” (said somewhat sneeringly), they talk about white interests. Understand this as: We are not “disasters” like Hitler, who did have the political will to carry out an anti-Jewish policy. For them the Jews are here to stay because there’s no will to do anything about it. They’re grappling with the Muslims now. They can live with the Holocaust.
@40 min. participant Casey said: “I had to watch Schindler’s List in 8th grade, but that was it. But I got it—Hitler’s a bad guy.” His question: How to change education to give kids a more complete historical context, for example like what was happening in Weimar?
Kevin answers by shifting to Blacks and Slavery, away from holocaust.
@46 min. Luke Ford asks: A line from an article you published was “Jews are genetically driven to destroy Whites.” Is that a fair description?
Kevin: No, it’s not. I wrote a book called Culture of Critique—it’s about culture, not genetics. How they identify themselves, think about themselves. I would like to see a cultural shift.
Luke added: Andrew Joyce wrote in an essay published at TOO: “The Jews of the middle ages did no labor—almost all lived parasitically from money-lending.”
Kevin did defend this, but said, “I don’t use the word parasite… much… I don’t think you can use that word for American Jews.”
@1 hr 44 min. Kevin: “I don’t like people who have swastikas on their websites; identify with Nazism. It’s a non starter in American context. We have to be an American party, we have to be about white people, and we have to give up the sort of National Socialist idea of the past. Which was a disaster, partly of its own making. I don’t think it was well led. So we have to get away from them. It’s just bad PR.”
Kevin MacDonald tries to act casual when it comes up in interviews, but he is clearly not casual in his feelings about it. He is incredibly careful of leaving any opening for an association with him and Holocaust revisionism. By doing so, he helps the Jewish drive to keep Germans forever guilty of “unspeakable” and unnatural crimes, and unable to rise (“on their knees” as it’s been coined); which in turn helps the Jewish drive to wield their weapon of antisemitism against all Europeans; which in turn hinders all whites from feeling enough pride to defend their race because the one who is most famous for doing so is seen as a disaster to his race by his own people. But of course, Kevin would deny all this.
If Whites could stick together and work together on Holocaust revisionism, I believe success could be had. I don’t know of a single person who, willing to really look at the evidence and give it a chance, continued to believe the official narrative of the big H. It’s always a political decision to insist that it must have taken place because too much is a stake politically if it didn’t. The entire WWII global order would be shaken to its core. This is the position MacDonald is in, it seems to me, along with so many other White activists who say they put White survival and sovereignty first. They don’t. They are afraid some element in the social fabric that they don’t like will get control, and that bothers them more than giving control to the non-White. This is incredible but true.
During this program, Kevin spoke of how some anti-Jewish material he reads “makes him sick,” he didn’t want to think he played any part in encouraging it. However, he was quite easygoing when it came to the subject of Jewish behavior—no similar strong feelings emerged. He thought some Jews were aligned with White interests and could participate well in White societies. Clearly it is a matter of culture for him.
In closing, I have seen again and again that behind the reluctance to confront the Holocaust taboo lies the stronger fear of the Adolf Hitler taboo. Many truly believe the propaganda that Hitler was a disaster for Europe, thus to keep anyone like him from returning to power, Hitler must remain the one responsible for the horrible Holocaust and the Holocaust must remain real. What they don’t seem to consider is that as Germans disappear as a consequence, Europe will die along with them. Without a genuine Germany, there is no Europe.
19 replies on “Carolyn on Kevin”
Nice, Cesar T.! Does my heart (and head) good to read this piece and know as well that Carolyn Yeager approved. Thank you for your kind words at CY.
Amazing. KMD fails “The Hitler Test” so abysmally, also the “Holocaust Lie Test”. It seems many who are jew-wise crash on the track at this hurdle.
Then there is the “Christianity Insanity Test”.
1. jew-Wise Test – pass/fail
2. “Hitler Test/ Holocaust Lie” Test – pass/fail
3. “Christianity-Insanity” Test – pass/fail
Many like KMD are just abysmally ignorant of National Socialist Germany and Hitler; and don’t want to know. Just repeat the same tired canards. Is it just moral cowardice? Slightly bewildered.
This explanation of the interview invokes two comments: The first being the claim of Jewish genetic heritage as an inevitable enemy of the White Race.
If it is genetic, then how could only evolution have engendered such a pathology for people (us) who are so much the same? Evolution, mild differences in form, character, and outlook didn’t. This is why MacDonald ‘sees’ the quandary as only ‘cultural’.
The answer is in Genesis, however confusing it might be because of the ‘normative’ doctrine hiding the truth. Eve had coitus with the ‘Devil’. The resulting child Cain carried a deviant gene allowing psychopathology. That psychopathologic structure is explained in Lobacewski’s “Poltical Ponerology”.It is now present in all of mankind due to interbreeding, but most prominent in the Sephardic/Ashkenazi race, as high as 3%, while being minimal in others. These people are without a conscience. That lack of empathy combined with the ‘Chosen People’ lie and a spirit of persecution has created that deviant culture of Jewry that either is insurrectionary or complicit in all circumstances.
The second is the ‘Holocaust’ itself. Hitler intended to kill the Jews as mandated in Himmler’s Einzatsgruppen killing squads following along the march of the Wehrmacht. The matter of the concentration camps slaughter is therefore ‘academic’. The balance of evidence supports the conclusion that the camps were for slave labor with the poor inmates perishing from malnutrition, overwork, and typhus. It is Jewish propagan da ONLY in the exaggeration!
Despite the unfair and prejudiced outcome from Nuremberg, a ‘new’ moral sense of the Equality of Mankind was established, blaming properly National Socialism and the Wehrmacht for this slaughter. Germany abridged the understanding of the Treaty of Westphalia and The Geneva Convention.
If National Socialism, or any other philosophy asserting distinctions amongst ‘Bi-Pedal Hominids’ is going to emerge, it must make the case for Evil In Humans as the right to kill them outside the rules of war.
This can be done through genetic investigations that will verify the Psychopathologic Gene.
“They are afraid some element in the social fabric that they don’t like will get control, and that bothers them more than giving control to the non-White.”
This is the most important passage, imo. But then again, aren’t you ruled by the same fear? You’re against rock-listening White Nationalists because they’re doomed to repeat mistakes of the past (the US of the 1950s), even though the ideology is white in nature. MacDonald considers Hitler a mistake, partially because he did lose the war, didn’t he? Losing implies mistakes having been made.
I love Hitler, don’t get me wrong, but here you bring up the Red Bavaria of 1919, which was infinitely more German and healthy than the Bavaria of 2000 or 2017. The Red Ukraine had 52 mil. whites in 1991, now “liberated”, it has 42 mil. I’d take all 3 Holodomors (1920, 1933, 1945) over Americanization any day every day.
“as Germans disappear as a consequence, Europe will die along with them. Without a genuine Germany, there is no Europe.”
Do you really still believe Germany is not a corpse? I could see Switzerland, Czechia and Poland surviving, but Germany? Isn’t it safer to abandon any false hope in Western Europe?
The only thing worth weeping for is the treasures of the White achievement such as the Fra Mauro map.
I stopped reading your comment after your line on rock “music” because it’s obvious that you don’t have read what we have written here under the category “degenerate art”.
Cesar, I support your stance on it! I’ve mentioned it here because nobody else on the Internet does (aside from Metapedia), and it’s one of the most important things about your worldview which is the truest kind of NatSoc!
In this post I just wanted to make a comparison that one can critique a largely pro-white ideology. Both degenerate White Nationalists of today and Spartan-like National Socialists of old made mistakes. If they hadn’t, they would’ve succeeded.
I did not know that rock had such a mixed origin! Seems I’ll have to stick with classical from now on. Or exercise moderation.
What do you think about Beethoven’s music? Wagner? Mozart? I don’t want to just lump all these great artists into the “Aryan” category, I think each should be explored separately.
Mozart became a Freemason. When some people wanted to censure the Magic Flute, Hitler is alleged to have remarked on it, saying, “Only a man lacking in national respect would condemn Mozart’s Magic Flute because it may sometimes come into conflict with his own ideas.” (apparently this was in August 20, 1938, Frankische Tageszeitung). While Hanisch claims that Hitler wanted to leave when it played and said Mozart fitted the old sentimental times.
Goethe had his reservations about Beethoven’s personality, confirming the NS philosophy about an ailing body (in this case, loss of hearing) affecting the mind and character of a person.
Wagner derived his music from Schopenhauer’s philosophy and by doing so, adapted music to reason rather than emotion. Nonetheless, it served as a powerful impetus for Hitler so I make an exception here.
Sorry for the off-topic. Don’t know where I can post it properly.
Usually I’m a silent reader of your site, therefore first of all I’d like to thank you for the colossal work you do solo. Your blog is a unique place, where true radicalism unites with gallant intellectualism, if you don’t mind me saying so.
I don’t listen to rock music and feel disgust at it, not considering it as Musik at all. But I could interpret it as an effective performance for specific, really not bad but hmmm… slightly retarded, persons.
Mr. Tort, you are capable of appreciating violent and brutal passages from Pierce’s fiction or Anglin’s straightforward but not too highbrow views, or even recent mischievous or maybe desperate and tragic prank by “fucking Canadians”. So why one cannot think of barbarian rock drums and guitar sound distortion with ironic placidity just as well? Let the modern berserkrs howl and dance!
By the way, I’ve no money to buy a good classical string instrument and I’ve no time to learn it professionally, but sometimes I read lines of Bach’s The Well-Tempered Clavier or some baroque cello pieces when playing my old fretless electric rocky bass guitar. Though I’d agree that high aims presuppose high means, but the destitute times force us to use the available resources.
I hope you enjoy this counter-revolitionary Neapolitan “folk rock” hooliganism (the close of the XVIII century):
Play the Carmagnole!
To the sound of the drums, long live the peasant people!
To the sound of the tambourines, the paupers have risen up!
To the sound of the bells, long live the commoners!
To the sound of the violins, death to the Jacobins!
Play the Carmagnole, call and gather the troops:
long live the king and his family!
The great fortress of Sant’Elmo, they crushed it like ricotta,
they put a mitre on the head of that shameless fool;
Majesty, who has betrayed you, who has had the nerve?
The lords and knights, they wanted you in prison!
Play the Carmagnole…
On the thirteenth of June, the feast of Saint Anthony,
they soundly defeated those Lords, those crooks.
The French arrived, and imposed more taxes on us,
Liberté, Egalité… you steal from me, I steal from you!
Play the Carmagnole…
The French arrived, they fleeced us to no end,
and voilà, and voilà, they kicked liberty in the ass!
At the harbour, after battle, the liberty tree was taken down,
they grabbed those Jacobins and wiped the floor with ‘em!
Play the Carmagnole…
Passed have the rainy month, the windy month, the
flowermonth, in the month of harvest they got garlic up their
ass! Long live Tata Maccarone, who respects religion,
Jacobins, go to sea, because your backside is on fire!
Play the Carmagnole…
I don’t enjoy that music but folk music is not degenerate music.
Degenerate music is what we listen in almost all WN podcasts.
Welcome to this forum.
It’s just a question of hierarchy, isn’t it? Hylic-psychic-pneumatic differentiation, jedem das Sein etc.
Yes, these simple guys, WN, listen to rac, black metal, ebm, darkfolk and bla-bla-bla audio-garbage, and their aesthetical taste conforms to the biological content in their bodies and the ideological content in their heads. Zeitgeist, no wonder… But what can we contrast with or oppose to this degenerate art? A nostalgy for Christianity-oriented classical music? Well, how degenerate are Bach or Monteverdi? What is authentic European, Nordicistic music? A step from Ancient Greek tragedy to “die Hohe Messe” as much huge, as a step from the Mass to our day’s pop concert.
And yet it’s beautiful:
If there are problems with Christian music (Mozart’s Requiem for example tortured me when I feared eternal damnation) there’s still lots of classical music that I find most inspiring.
My first love, when I was about 5-eyars-old was Mussorgsky’s Dawn on the Moscow river.
I think you are very lucky with the good taste of your parents who raised their son as a noble man of high culture. But when a white-trash-dad gets high only on rap or punk or techno, it’s an evolutionary jump, a qualitative transition for his kid to protest against that nasty taste with listening to something like this: link
Is it a degenerate art for you? OK, the sentimental tune, the clumsy poetry, but… This song is sincere enough to touch some wounded young hearts and bring them to take the first step for unplugging themselves from the Matrix. Remember, please, what was the age when you realized that HWR – five-years-old? no, sir, fifty-years-old!
Mussorgsky is great. I bet you also had an old vinyl record of his Pictures at an Exhibition in your collection.
You guessed correctly! Yes: as a very small kid I listened Pictures at an Exhibition many times.
I get your point about your music link. But still, compared to real music that sound silly to my ears. That’s an enormous problem I have with WNsts. Even Linder is not educated musically. He believes that Hitler liked bad music when it’s he and the rest who have bad tastes!
I remember a passage in Hitler’s table talk. He felt pity for the Americans when an opera theatre was closing in NY. If to understand NS you got to understand Wagner, who among American neonazis understands NS?
No neonazi could be expected to understand such complex things. Comparing not quite correctly out of poor quality of the post-WWII white humanity, do you think that the laborers from Sturmabteilung whistled the most difficult passages from Wagner’s masterpieces, while drinking at Bierpalast? Which of those simple German men (more honest and robust than the WN-charged white trash) did understand the Wagnerian intentions and concepts?
But German intellectual elite really did and directed these people, the salt of German soil, to the heroic transformation expressed through Wagnerian myths.
In my opinion, it’s not so much a problem of WNsts as white elite’s lack problem, especially Nordic elite capable to express Nordicist idea(l)s. Mr Tort, forgive me the link on this miserable post (link) but damn, I wonder why this “macho Mexican” is so devoted to 14 words that he’d wish to write a Nordicism Evangel whereas those worthless “the whitest nationalists” squabble concerning the copyright!
The lack of the elite is the problem. It involves not only music, of course. In the today’s “movement” there are no charismatic and wide-scale persons in politics, literature, philosophy, economics, art. Someone is immature, someone is mistaken. The most of WNsts are freaks, and the most of them have the worst tastes. Nevertheless it’s not their guilt but their misfortune. However the pop stars of the white nationalism and alt-right pandemonium are conscious distorters, occupants and illegitimate expropriators of our Heritage and our Faith.
The ruthless sickle of Hellstorm has riped the best of Volk, and these Flowers hadn’t turn into great Fruits, but they were burnt to ashes and rot away in the postmodernist swamp. I belive sencerelly it’s until a certain time… Paraphrasing the Rene Guenon’s statement: “After all, the end of White Nationalist world never is and never can be anything but the end of an illusion”.
P.S. Sometimes you complain of non-fluent English speaking, but I can’t even write fluently. Sorry for my wrong articles and verbs.
Well, in fact I complain about non fluency in spoken English, as what I know of the language comes from books, not from talking.
So you’re an European. Good!
As to your link, I didn’t notice the small letters in Carolyn’s site. But she’s wrong that I posted it in toto: my post is actually an abridgement of her translation.
In her recent emails to me she and her pupil continued their tone but I don’t reply to hysterics.
So shallow is this swamp… That is extremely significant. Talking frankly, I don’t think that the new order will sprout from this poor humus of WN, WP or AR. It can’t nourish and evolve. And we are just a wave on the swell, a resonance from the distant echo of the coming Blond Beast race…
I wouldn’t like to seem a pathos-maker, but the HWR mantra (even if he was wrong sometimes) must be a kind of our “theodicy”, and uncompromising Nordicist ideology a justification of Being and World as an aesthetic phenomenon, the eternal Aryan beauty.
Going on to read your blog with martial mood and gratitude…
Oh thank you.
There’s a category in this site:
Explain please, what did you exactly want to accent with that link? There are a lot of interesting, but topically different posts.
By the way, I had not read O’Meara’s Republic. Is it worth to correct the neglect?
It is a category: links to many articles.
> “…a justification of Being and World as an aesthetic phenomenon”