A fascinating interview of Sebastian Ernst Ronin (photo) with Joe and John on The White Voice. And not only about why peak oil should be the central subject among ethno-nationalists. Sebastian also answered tough questions from the interviewer about why he had been critical of Christian Identitarian Matt Heimbach.
Since most nationalists are willfully illiterate about the total energy devolution that is coming—very few know that America’s bottom will drop out within our lifespans—, I agree with Sebastian that his party “is the future.” I also agree that there is no record in revolutionary history that the faction that will become the dominant ideology can do it through courteous diplomacy with the competing groups and without any in-fighting.
Listen to the interview starting in minute 52 (here)!
Update of 8 December 2015:
I have now distanced myself from Ronin’s party. Admitting women in the inner party is almost like admitting Jews.
86 replies on “Sebastian discusses peak oil with skeptics”
Thank you, Chechar. Here is a follow-up essay to yesterday’s interview.
Reblogged this on oogenhand and commented:
The energy illiterates are a joke. I know a pretty smart guy, Donald Pauly — electronics technician, scientifically literate, but constantly (until the conversation I will speak of) emailing me with the subject line “infinite oil.” He would regale me with discoveries of 3 billion barrels of oil shale in the Bakken.
Finally I asked Donald, “how many gallons of oil in a barrel, and how many barrels does the United States use per day?” He didn’t know the gallons per barrel (42), and he guessed that the US uses 10,000 barrels a day. 10,000! He was off by a factor of 2000! We use 20 million barrels a day! So when you talk to an energy illiterate, that’s how you shut him down. So then I asked him (and he’s good at math) how many days of US consumption will 3 billion barrels supply? He did his calculations, and realized it’s about 6 months. Oops! No more taunting “infinite oil” emails from old Donald.
Amerika (4% of global population) consumes 25% of global supply. Of that, the Amerikan military consumes 50%. In other words, the Amerikan military consumes roughly 12% of global total. Now take a look at all global hot spots. What is underway is a mad dash for the last of the remaining easy stuff.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is exactly that: it is a scientific law; it not an opinion or a Facecrack comment. In simplest form, the Second Law dictates: the world dashes towards maximum entropy, i.e. disorder. The devolution of the industrial nation-state is part of that entropic given.
It is likely the world already uses other energy sources. There is a reason Anonymous thinks it can hack the oil industry with impunity.
Chechar, I cannot find an email address in this blog. Please contact me at: novacadia at gmail dot com.
It is at the sidebar:
“CONTACT:
cesartort (at) yahoo”
I listened to it. My observations/sentiment:
It’s premature to call Mr. Ronin’s party “the future.”
If you take out the proper names, remove the personal element, judge only the ideas, and ignore any behind the scenes crap that is invisible and irrelevant to outsiders like myself, I thought Sebastian Ronin made some fair points.
All evidence suggests that secession-oriented vanguard approaches have more potential for white interests long term than mainstream approaches.
It’s hard for me to see how a committed Christian’s first loyalty will ever be to anything other than Christianity.
It’s almost certainly true that a unified nationalist movement will never emerge in North America. There are always going to be “factions.”
BUT, it doesn’t follow from this that there needs to be a “street fight” for supremacy among the various factions. That’s ridiculous, and a harmful idea IMO.
Each faction ought to be able to make a positive case for its approach without denigrating other factions on a personal level (as opposed to criticizing their ideas/positions).
As a person not familiar with Sebastian Ronin’s work, and writing from an outsider not insider perspective, Sebastian Ronin made a favorable impression on me. He comes across as intelligent and well-spoken with some good points except for his advocacy of “street fighting.”
Those interviewers did a good job too.
Lew, re “the future”: That is surely the prerogative for the leader of any political party that has tossed its hat into the ring as an incorporated, legal entity. The “hobby horses” are with the knotted panties. Furthermore, I wasn’t simply making a positive propaganda/PR sound bite. I actually believe it.
You mentioned the New Orleans protocol in your essay. You were there? I happened to be at that event and recall there was a speaker from Canada. Just curious.
No, it wasn’t me. It may have likely been Paul Fromm.
He’s cuckolding you fools.
He isn’t an ethnic nationalist at all. He’s a Leftist who’s cynically crammed his bio-regionalism into an ethnic nationalist context in order to obtain a captive audience. On the rare occasion that he brings up race or identity at all, it’s to keep you all paying attention long enough to sit you through another one of his diatribes on entropism and oil.
A robust White Nation without this decadence and these minorities could easily round the peak oil curve without veering off the road…by reducing consumption dramatically or relying on numerous alternatives. Even if we passed a law against any and all energy alternative research today, the known and mature alternatives to oil would keep this party rocking until well after 2100.
If you listen to the radio show closely, you’ll hear that he ascribes all of the current global unrest to Peak Oil. This is doubly problematic, as we’ve not come anywhere near Peak Oil. Oil’s still virtually free, and the recent price rises have been almost entirely due to currency inflation unrelated to availability. He knows this. His model predicts that everything will plug along smoothly for decades and decades.
The facts directly contradict his model. The riots and unrest are happening where there’s ethnic conflict and third world immigration, not where there’s a lack of energy.
The second reason it’s problematic is because he not only places heritage and identity beneath oil–which would be problematic enough for a supposed White Nationalist–he disregards it altogether. Like all Leftist ideologues, he sees all of humanity as anonymous cogs in a crude reductionist abstract world order. The only reason he’s speaking of ethnicity at all is because he sees the devolution of power heading in a regional and tribal direction, so he’s trying to beat us genuine ethno-patriots to the punch.
Matt, I’ll let you debate with Sebastian the issues of his motivations but this—:
—shows that you fall under the category of those criticized by Mindweapon. Have you at least (at least…!) taken the 45-minute Martenson course that explains the peak oil model beautifully?
https://westsdarkesthour.com/2013/06/20/total-and-unconditional-energy-devolution/
Incidentally, you could read also the Wikipedia article on “Peak oil”, which has been promoted as a “good article”. The Wiki, as you know, has the policy of “NPOV”, which means that no one can show in a “good” article only one point of view of the debate.
I’m very familiar with Peak Oil.
The reason the alternatives aren’t “viable” is because oil is practically free and because the infrastructure is already oil. An alternative would need to be even cheaper than oil bubbling out of the ground. The existing alternatives have tremendous potential, but won’t have a chance to replace oil until oil peaks…which it’s not doing for decades to come.
A racialist like yourself should be able to know why Japan, Iceland, and New Zealand (energy deserts) are thriving while the Middle East, Black Africa, and Haiti (energy oases) are ablaze. It has very little to do with energy.
Human history is a function and product of human capital, not energy input. Icelanders will cleverly put their magma chambers to work for them, while Nigerians will run around raping and killing one another in vast pools of oil. Energy is useful, and it matters, but the next century will be made or broken on whether White people are allowed to thrive and innovate (and therefore resolve these problems) or whether they’re overwhelmed by the rising tide of color.
As for all the charts, I’m an analyst and I’ve seen my share of charts. I want the downloadable datasets. There has been plenty of exponential growth, but a lot of these trends have been uneventfully falling into sustainable patterns. Population growth is on its way to stabilizing, despite ongoing energy input (itself, a violation of his model), vehicles are more fuel-efficient than they used to be, and digital cryptocurrencies are on track to destroy the federal fiat debt machine long before it starts hurting for oil.
But you don’t seem to have listened the debates at Martenson’s site, since his friendly opponents say similar things of what you said above.
My interest in the convergence of catastrophes and even peak oil predates my reading of Sebastian. It has to do with that famous post in this blog, originally posted in the previous incarnation of WDH, “The Red Giant”, where a Swede said that the death of billions in the Third World—the population surplus according to peak oilers—will change the current paradigm.
I became interested in the subject because of my search on axiological shifts, even if I started a total skeptic of such catastrophism (in 2009 I believed it was pure wishful thinking and self-delusion of desperate nationalists).
Martenson changed my mind. But you have to listen the friendly debates. It’s like the proverbial Jury that has to spend weeks pondering about what both attorney and prosecutor tell them.
I don’t believe in Peak Oil myself. I have a specialist friend with advanced degrees in the right fields and decades of work in energy. He says PO isn’t an issue, so that’s the end of it for me; I won’t spend time researching it for that reason.
As for the cuckoldry and infighting, I’m inclined to believe all that just because it’s you saying it. But the thing is, how is a neutral reader unfamiliar with the history and who wants to be fair to all perspectives supposed to know who is cuckolding?
With Miller it was easy; he outright denounced WNists.
I listened to Sebastian because he mentioned the New Orleans protocol in his essay. I just assumed that anyone who knew about an obscure nationalist event that took place 10 years ago would have to be fairly embedded in WNism. I hope you two can have a productive debate.
Typical. Just listen to a prosecutor (preferably a buddy), not to the attorney, and reach a premature verdict.
As a fellow student of conspiracy theories and pseudoscience, you know very well that people necessarily need to resort to experts and consensus as preliminary filters, given how much garbage is floating around…all of which shouts, “Educate yourself! Educate yourself!”
But since it’s become such an issue in this context, I’m going to set aside some time over the next few weeks to “educate myself” on this Peak Oil stuff, above and beyond my cursory familiarity. I’ll do my best to be objective. I’ll honestly consider the positions. I’ll even dust off Excel and crunch some of my own numbers on it.
My position on Seb and his motives stands, whether Peak Oil is legitimate or pseudoscience. I think he’s an incorrect dirtbag, but I’ll put my complete critical thinking faculties to work and arrive at a complete analysis which could conceivably conclude that he’s a correct dirtbag.
If my previous experience with the pseudoscience of parapsychology and Turin Shroud studies may be of your help, let me say that when I believed that stuff I didn’t realize how self-deception works. For instance, I subscribed to both parapsychological and shroud journals, and since these people have PhDs I assumed that both paranormal cases were demonstrated without reasonable doubt.
Perhaps you remember a TOO discussion about the Holocaust where I said that I only realized how self-deluded I was when a skeptical group from the US (with magician James Randi) visited Mexico City and I purchased some of their books.
In other words, if you don’t listen to both sides of the debate (like a Jury) any expert will convince you, even if he’s wrong. It is not valid to rely on one side of the debate, as I did for years during my paranormal stage, and claim that you are “educated” on a subject.
The Wiki article on Peak oil impressed me. I used to be a wiki editor and even though I hate the Jewish/liberal takeover of that encyclopedia I realized that at least the wiki articles on the paranormal were good, insofar as they always sided the skeptical side because, according to what they call reliable sources, there’s no scientific evidence of the reality of the paranormal. (See for example the wiki article Satanic Ritual Abuse, that I used to edit, to have a flavor of how the wiki does indeed debunk fields of research considered pseudoscientific.) But in the case of peak oil, unlike clearly pseudoscientific subjects, the wiki article does not debunk the field: it’s objective.
So it’s not a bad idea starting from there in your searches.
Also, the beauty of Martenson’s guests in his radio show is that they are the top experts on energy, and many disagree with him. For the layman (the “Jury”) oral debates, much more than written papers, are the royal way to reach an educated opinion.
Martenson is a must as a PO primer as much as is Leopold Kohr’s “The Breakdown of Nations” (written 1957) for secessionists. There are a handful of PO musts; they are not difficult to source.
This is the fallacy of the False Dilemma, like how Creationists and Truthers insist on giving both sides equal time.
Even if Seb did deserve equal time, he’s made it abundantly plain that he will not and cannot debate the merits without an escape hatch within reach. He will not and cannot answer the tough questions about either his motives or his theories.
Like Creationists and Paranormal Psychologists, he makes a slick introductory presentation pitch, then becomes evasive, opaque, ornery, and accusatory.
Nobody asks me why my alias was “wikitopian” before I started going under my own name. I’m a huge fan of wikipedia and I agree that the Peak Oil article is a damn fine article. As for “hearing both sides”, I ascribe my success as a blogger and as a thinker to my filling my RSS feed reader with 50% liberal think tank reports. I prefer my enemy propaganda wholesale and in bulk. I explore their reasoning, am ahead of their arguments, and seek out opportunities to identity valid challenges to our worldview and synthesize them into my framework.
I’m not disputing that there will be a peak in oil production in the coming decades, and that there will be geopolitical consequences. Ecology-minded folks like myself are genuinely concerned about energy depletion (and emissions!), but cranks like Seb Ronin have turned it all into a radical reductionist doomsday cult. The article certainly does not support the following claims which Mr. Ronin makes…
1. The ramifications of Peak Oil are already here.
This is preposterous, as oil production continues to meet demand and likely will for the next couple decades. The global unrest more squarely aligns with debt currency and demographic models…namely, my racialist/traditionalist model.
2. Doom is imminent.
If you follow Seb’s writings closely, you’ll see that he pushes the date as close as his audience is gullible enough to tolerate. If the audience can be convinced that Peak Oil mayhem is already here, then that’s what he goes with. If the audience pushes back forcefully about the viability of alternatives, he’ll grudgingly walk back until we’re all dead of old age, and then slip out of the conversation.
3. The alternatives are all a lie.
This is my favorite, as the absolute abundance of practically free oil makes it so that none of the alternatives can get off the ground. Their failure to get off the ground is used to support his claim that the alternatives are all a lie, and there are no substitutes on deck for fossil fuels. Not only must alternatives compete with free oil bubbling out of massive reserves, but they must also compete with the vast existing infrastructure which already exists for oil.
4. Energy = Progress
There’s certainly a kernel of truth in that, and fossil fuels most certainly helped…fuel…the industrial age. An innovative and disciplined society will be able to respond to paradigm shifts, just as it’s doing with the loss of slave labor and child labor. Nuclear’s been sitting on deck as an affordable, clean, mature alternative so long that’s grown out a wizard’s beard.
But the typical Western first world lifestyle could adapt to a dramatic spike in fossil fuel prices by consuming less, driving fewer and smaller cars, resorting to alternatives to polymers.
His “entropism” is fundamentally incompatible with your and my worldview. One can be a Peak Oil doomer like yourself without being an “entropist” like he is, but I advise you to reflect on the difference, and on his outrageous claim that the unrest in Europe right now is a function of aggregate energy demand.
He’s not one of us.
The Amish are a prosperous and successful people despite being almost entirely independent from the fossil fuel bubble, and there’s a nice “crunchy” hipster subculture emerging which promises to put a check on the asymptotic rise in consumption. A genuine rise in the cost of fossil fuels (something which has not yet arrived) would propel this subculture to ubiquity.
There are all kind of reasons to have hope that our people will be able to handle this coming problem as we’ve handled innumerable crises before. That is, of course, presuming that there remains an “our people”, a concern Sebastian Ronin dismisses as an afterthought and absolutely never addresses unless it’s the bare minimum necessary to win an audience with us.
Before reading to your above reply let me say that this—:
—completely distorts my argument, since I started paranormalist (something similar to a creationist) and ended skeptic of the paranormal. That fallacy applies to cranks who say “Listen to both sides!”, not to those who have already left behind paranormalism / creationism for real science.
As to peak oil, it is not in the same category of crank vs. real science, as you have seen in the wiki article. But no one in this thread has studied PO profoundly; that’s why we must rely on secondary opinion.
What I learned in my previous searches is that you cannot be an expert on everything. The field I studied and debunked in the last decade was biological psychiatry, but I am no longer a scholar in that field: it is a full-time career (though there are specialists that debunk biopsych in specialized journals: including MDs, psychiatrists and PhDs in biology who say that biopsych is a pseudo).
As to the paranormal, it’s interesting to know that CSICOP skeptics specialize in very specific fields of crank science. When I attended their conferences I met skeptics who focused on UFOlogy; others on parapsychology, etc. No one, even skeptics researching crank science, can be an expert of everything. It is just impossible.
Now I read your comment.
Again forget Sebas. Have you seen the first segment of “Prophets of doom”? Just the first segment—Mike Ruppert—, not the rest of the program. It may be not as elegant and “objective” (I hate that word) as Martenson’s course, but unlike him Ruppert talks of peak oil doom:
http://youtu.be/x6K80dix5BU
Read the book. “Crossing The Rubicon” covers all bases. Empire goes down. Gonna hurt, hurt, hurt.
As an aside, this entire movement-wide “pagans vs. christians” food fight was instigated by this silly old fool and his silly young proxies.
It’s instructive to see how he totally lied to the Christians in his rank for years, only to come out as anti-Christian and kick them aside unceremoniously. This is exactly what he’ll do to the rest of you, after he’s done leaving a pile of gossip and arguments in his wake.
Ask yourselves which framing of events is more likely:
1. A fringe crank within the Green Party assortment of fringe cranks bombed out of the party after his failed 2010 candidacy, and sought out a new angle and audience for his decades-old shtick.
2. Seb suddenly became genuinely committed to ethnic and racial preservation at exactly that time, at that age, and hasn’t bothered to write or speak extensively on that topic for some reason.
Again, I cannot speak for Sebastian but my issues with Christianity started in 1975-1976, when my very, very Catholic father committed a crime that destroyed my personal universe (the subject of my book Hojas Susurrantes, where the odyssey of how Christianity negatively impacted my life is recounted).
I get that. I know where you’re coming from and how you got there.
He’s using you and the rest of the skeptical and anti-Christian White Nationalists. I have always been friendly and cooperative with skeptics and folk religionists, and have done my share of challenging the myriad problems within the Christian community.
Unlike Seb, whose position on the religion question changed merely weeks ago from unity to anti-Christianity, my position has remained the same for the entire time I’ve been speaking: I promise that I will do everything within my power to ensure that freedom of conscience is preserved in our future White nation.
I’d never, ever attack Christian Identitarian Wm. Finck—:
https://westsdarkesthour.com/2013/04/05/a-christian-i-do-respect/
—precisely because he puts race first and religion second. But when a Christian does exactly the opposite, what’s wrong if someone like Sebastian considers him fair game (even though I’ve tried to be respectful of Heimbach here)?
You have a moral obligation to stand with an authentic White Nationalist who’s made real sacrifices on behalf of our people when he’s under attack from an obvious imposter. You have a moral obligation to apply your critical thinking skills to Seb’s biography and real world actions. You have a moral obligation to set an internal quibble about religion aside when somebody’s clearly and blatantly using your quibble with him to stir up discord in an openly stated divide-and-conquer strategy.
You’re losing it, sweetheart. Best give Dr. Greggie a call and you can console each other.
Re “The second reason it’s problematic is because he not only places heritage and identity beneath oil–which would be problematic enough for a supposed White Nationalist.”
But I’m not a “White Nationalist”, remember? I am an Ethno Nationalist. I suppose the days of the week confuse you and Dr. Greggie. Let’s see, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays…Ethno Nationalist. Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays…White Nationalist. Sunday set aside for the Lord.
I know exactly what you are. You’re a bio-regional ecologist who’s conned a bunch of people into thinking that’s synonymous with ethnic nationalism. You didn’t do a damn thing for the South African genocide victims. Your press releases, your “event”, and your follow-up materials were all about you and your project. The victims were merely bait to rake in some White Nationalist bodies whose beliefs and goals you openly despise.
I’m losing it because you’re fooling sincere people (like Chechar) into turning on people I respect. Your problem is with me, not with Matthew Heimbach or Dr. Johnson. And yet you attack them because you know that upsets me more than my being attacked directly.
Whiny, little bitch. You are making an ass of yourself. Be my guest. For those who beg for more rope, simply comply.
Answer the fucking charge.
Fuck you. You and your poodles are going down. Never explain; never debate; never apologize. Toodles.
You won’t explain because you can’t explain.
You can’t answer the charge because you’re not an advocate for our people.
You never have been and never will be an advocate for our people.
You’ll just keep up with your cute little scorched earth confidence shtick until the people who’ve fallen for it wake up, stand up, and quietly wander off, one-by-one.
Then you’ll move on to the next political subculture and kick off this familiar cycle all over again.
The drowning clutch at straws. They always have; they always will.
My comment “Guys: keep it civil…” that appears below should have been posted in this thread. I only hope discussion will be a little more civil tomorrow.
Re “Your problem is with me, not with Matthew Heimbach or Dr. Johnson.”
You had best loosen the knot in your panties. I think it is affecting blood flow to the brain. I don’t give a rat’s ass about you. However, I do care very much about you-as-as-asset.
Subquantumkinetics.
First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics. A tad more concrete than the Lord’s Prayer.
Guys: keep it civil. It’s embarrassing for me to host an important discussion like this (Is peak oil a legitimate field for WNsts?) degraded to such “street fight” levels…
Ecology is a legitimate field for WNists, one which has been integrated into the platform of every major WN movement for decades. Even the CofCC, the very paragons of paleocon “Take America Back!” conservatism spell out a commitment to conservation in their founding articles. Peak oil is a legitimate concern within the overarching concern of egology, which is itself a part of our survival.
Putting “Peak Oil” at the top of the list of concerns is bad science and bad strategy for our movement. “The future” isn’t Seb’s doomsday cult, it’s projects like Golden Dawn, Nation of Islam, and Putin’s Russia…the return of tribe and tradition as the prevailing world order…and carving out our place in that impending order.
Why?? Forget Sebastian: As I said, I became interested in the field before I read his blog.
If 5 billion humans are going to die of unnatural deaths later in this century, especially in the Third World, as a result of energy devolution, this field of research should be considered #1. You are allowing your antipathy for Sebas to cloud your objectivity (frankly, I don’t care about the present infighting in the movement as I care about what will happen in the world during the lifespans of our children).
Forget Sebas. Just discuss the data. Either the population explosion is derived from the exploitation of energy resources since the 19th century or not (forget street infighting). If that is true, the population bubble is gonna pop later in this century, insofar as there will probably be no reliable substitutes of oil in the Third World. (Please don’t compare my “beautiful” town of Mexico City with more than 20 millions of Neanderthals with nations like Japan, Holland or Iceland, who surely will manage to survive.)
Well, maybe you should care when an interloper drops out of the sky, declares himself openly hostile to White Nationalism, and starts attacking several of your comrades. An air of wonkish analytical detachment is an inappropriate attitude during a home invasion.
The world population is leveling off organically, independent of fossil fuel availability. This in itself should make you pause and reflect on the correlation and causation between population growth and fossil fuel consumption. As Seb has driven home repeatedly, the overwhelming majority of fossil fuels are consumed by a small fraction of first world peoples and their military-industrial complexes.
The agribusiness “green revolution” advancements aren’t going to go away. Hunger has been a local and logistical problem for quite some time now. And unfortunately for the White race, the future of technology is very bright for the third world. Wireless and mesh network technologies, ubiquitous smart phones, distance education, and advances in things like aquaculture production of cheap sources of protein are very promising.
All things considered, the peak oil problem will most acutely affect our overlords, then ourselves (first world middle class types), and will do little if anything to roll back the rising tide of color.
I’m researching as we speak, so I’ll follow up if/when I have additional points to make or corrections.
But then you have already reached the conclusion even before listening to our “attorney”: you already believe that the population bubble won’t pop; that there will be billions of inhabitants in the Third World by the end of the century…
I am curious why conservative racialists (OD, CC, TOO and even MR) always dismiss both Austrian economics and peak oil when revolutionaries like me embrace it? This is my guess: conservative racialists are still conservatives and unconscious supporters of “Business As Usual”. We revolutionaries on the other hand crave for the whole Christian age to collapse (and for us suicidal Liberalism is just its modern, secular offshoot). That’s why we are not afraid of data that points out to some major demographic change in the near future (see e.g., the Ruppert video embedded above).
There’s a big fissure between those who, like Sebas and I, crave that Murka burns and conservative racialists. In my case, this is the result of hating America’s sins committed before WW2 (1881), during, and after that war. The other side is comprised by those who want to preserve Christian America in a slightly modified form (like the very recent conservative conference where OD commenters showed up their pretty faces). I could never go to a conference where some commenters are still spreading hate against Germany, even after Hellstorm was published, as some of them do at OD.
I want justice of Biblical proportions fall over the Murkans. And that zeal for divine justice makes me valiant enough to confront energy data that shows that even my family and extended family will probably die in the coming currency & energy debacle.
Even if PO is true (and based on the expertise of my trusted intermediary I don’t think it is), I’m not clear on the takeaway in all this back and forth. What do you think white advocates and white folks in general ought to be doing as a result of PO findings that they’re not doing?
Lew,
First of all, prepare as Edgar Stele implored all racialists in his radio shows even when he focused on currency rather than oil. (A pity that the Jews caught him before his message could spread out properly; he himself stored food and silver to survive a year.)
Murkan “White Nationalism”: desperation and death gasps.
For a person with such confidence in his positions, I don’t see where you have added much to this discussion. When you said you favored “street fighting,” I took that to mean an aggressive clash of ideas on the merits along with maybe throwing some elbows. You lose credibility by using Juvenile insults worthy of the schoolyard and by dodging pretty straightforward questions.
“Murkan ‘White Nationalism’: desperation and death gasps,” is not a juvenile insult, Lew. It is a simple observation. How, when, and where the “street fight” is going suits my purposes just fine. I don’t explain; I don’t debate; I don’t apologize. But I will answer questions. What’s your question? (Btw, I am not a “person.” I am a man. Political correctness is a bitch.)
Is your top priority and main objective for your efforts white survival or something else?
Received, Lew. Shall respond in the morning. Thank you.
I’ve listened to both sides, in depth. I just haven’t had the time this week to give Peak Oil yet another…trial.
Occidental Dissent is on board as endorsing a limited (intelligent) variant of Peak Oil concern. For all my philosophical quibbles with Hunter Wallace, he’s remarkably astute on the intersection of science and public policy. For all of his folksy Southern-fried spin, the man got to his positions largely through rigorous data-driven analysis.
As for monetary matters, I’m a bigger crank than all of you combined. I believe that digital cryptocurrencies are going to trigger a cascade failure in the global fiat monetary system within the decade.
I don’t believe in Business as Usual, and I don’t want business as usual. Ironically, you come off like the Biblical doomsday types with a secularized ideology-driven millennial eschatology. I believe there will be sweeping social, monetary, and demographic changes in the coming decades, I just believe that fossil fuel availability will be a sideshow relative to the collapse of the global fiat money bubble, the tribal reaction to austerity, and the impact of mobile smartphone web access when it reaches maturity and saturation here in a few months.
I’m exhausted. I kicked off my activism several years ago, barely out of high school, with a book on secession and the post-American future. Since then, I’ve done nothing but propagandize against American conservatism, working with and supporting scholars like Greg Johnson and Kevin MacDonald who radically oppose the current order. I’m against democracy, I’m even against republics. Gimme a fascist state under the jackboot of a martial order.
You can frame it however you want. I could as easily paint your passion for Peak Oil as wishful thinking fueled by your blood libel against the American folk who were also victims (if to a much lesser extent) of WWII. I say we set our narratives and suspicions about motives aside and iron out the facts, a project which will require me to set aside some time to indulge the pro-Peaker sources you’ve provided.
This:
…is contradicted by this:
You have already decided that peak oil won’t be eschatological before really listening to our attorney—unlike me, who started absolute skeptic about this apparent wishful thinking (it sounded just too good to be true) and was gradually convinced (in the case of the coming currency crash, thru two years of listening Schiff debates over YouTube and his radio show).
On the subject of Murkans, I don’t see any real atonement for their sins against their mother land over the WN boards. By “real atonement” I mean hate, real genocidal hate. The sole exception is how Wm. Pierce handled the white Murkans in his great novel, where they were reduced to 50 million after the racial wars (as depicted in the comic-book illustration I reproduced above—see also below).
Disturbing stuff. Kurwenal read some of HS and said a few days ago that he could not sleep.
Then we need to talk about how we would practically respond to either scenario. I don’t like going in expecting a huge sudden collapse because an unopposed state has near-infinite ability to “manage” its own collapse (i.e. to remain capable of killing the disobedient) and because it seems to put half the people in a mindset of Jesus-is-coming inaction and the other half in fearful prayer that the “collapse” does in fact occur and everyone isn’t just left to die.
I think Mindweapon probably has the best take on things because he’s good at sticking to very basic ideas that will be useful in a wide range of possible scenarios. Learning to grow food may be necessary to eat, an important source of income, or even just a good way to teach your kids patience with a real-world project, depending on how things go.
While Covington can be bombastic I’d also give him credit for imagining a campaign against a state which was still fairly powerful and held together in The Brigade. You can see the American government decay, but there’s no single event that starts the revolution from the outside. It’s willed into being by the revolutionaries themselves.
We want to think of our race as the locus of control, not something coming from the outside. This is actually a real difficulty for people growing up in a modern industrial society, who aren’t used to being in control personally or identifying with a collective that wasn’t pre-fabricated. We need to go pretty basic with this stuff, we’re going to need bowling clubs before storm-battalions. And let’s face it, a solid social network and one rifle will do more for you in Mad Max world than being alone with ten rifles will anyways.
I agree with that. I am not—no one is—a hundred percent sure that both collapses, currency and oil, will happen as predicted. But I am also a believer in Murphy’s law, and Edgar Steele’s advice of storing food, etc., makes sense to me. Anyway, he did not stop his broadcasts only because a secularized eschaton was coming. He continued to talk in his shows with that resonant voice of his until the System got him.
I told you I’ve already had this trial, and watched multiple documentaries and read several comprehensive Peak Oil sources. Ultimately, though, we all agree that Peak Oil is coming at some point in the future, but I believe there’s more “play”, or Anti-Fragility in the system than you give it credit for. Over and over again, people Malthusians, Y2K bug alarmists, and others have correctly identified future problems, and incorrectly surmised the capacity of the system to deal with those problems.
The Y2K problem did indeed cause some glitches, and would have indeed caused many more had an army of aging COBOL programmers not swooped out of retirement to deal with it.
Oy vey! with the gold buy Jews…
The blood libel and ressentiment here is more than a bit Jewy for my tastes. The Aryan (and Crusader) spirit is ruthless in dispensing justice as necessary, but not driven by this sort of venomous contempt over distant historical episodes. Let the dead bury their dead and allow the worthy remnant of this broken nation to rise up and build a glorious new one in its wake.
Mindweapon is also a huge Schiff watcher. I see nothing wrong with that as long as you don’t buy Schiff’s stance on immigration.
No, Matt no!: You are forgetting important pages of The Gulag Archipelago. I quote, and what Solzhenitsyn says about Russians I would say about Americans:
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being.
Socrates taught us: Know thyself! Confronted by the pit into which we are about to toss those who have done us harm, we halt, stricken dumb: it is after all only because of the way things worked out that they were the executioners and we weren’t. Just how are we to understand that? As the act of an evildoer? What sort of behavior is this?
We would prefer to say that such people cannot exist, that there aren’t any. It is permissible to portray evildoers in a story for children, so as to keep the picture simple. But when the great world literature of the past—Shakespeare, Schiller, Dickens—inflates and inflates images of evildoers of the blackest shades, it seems somewhat farcical and clumsy to our contemporary perception. The trouble lies in the way these classic evildoers are pictured. They recognize themselves as evildoers, and they know their souls are black. And they reason: “I cannot live unless I do evil. So I’ll set my father against my brother! I will drink the victim’s sufferings until I’m drunk with them!” Iago very precisely identifies his purposes and his motives as being black and born of hate.
But no; that’s not the way it is! To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good, or else that it’s a well-considered act in conformity with natural law. Fortunately, it is in the nature of the human being to seek a justification for his actions. Macbeth’s self-justifications were feeble—and his conscience devoured him. Yes, even Iago was a little lamb too. The imagination and the spiritual strength of Shakespeare’s evildoers stopped short at a dozen corpses. Because they had no ideology.
Thanks to ideology, the twentieth century was fated to experience evildoing on a scale calculated in the millions. [Chechar’s note: including Americans–cf. Hellstorm] This cannot be denied, nor passed over, nor suppressed. How then, do we dare to insist that evildoers do not exist? And who was it that destroyed these millions? Without evildoers there would have been no Archipelago. That is the precise line the Shakespearean evildoer could not cross. But the evildoer with ideology does cross it, and his eyes remain dry and clear…
In that same period, by 1966, eighty-six thousand Nazi criminals had been convicted in West Germany. And still we choke with anger here [Chechar’s note: and here too]. The fact that the murderers of our husbands and fathers ride through our streets and we make way for them as they pass, doesn’t get us worked up at all, doesn’t touch us. That would be “digging the past.”
Meanwhile, if we translate 86,000 West Germans into our own terms, on the basis of comparative population figures, it would become one-quarter of a million. Why is Germany allowed to punish its evildoers and Russia [Chechar’s note: or America] is not? What kind of disastrous path lies ahead of us if we do not have the chance to purge ourselves of that putrefaction rotting inside our body? What, then, can Russia teach the world?
Someday our descendants will describe our several generations as generations of driveling do-nothings. In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future. [Chechar’s note: precisely, precisely what Americanism did to our world]
I just want to say a few things. I am not interested in getting into an online pissing match with anyone, but since I have a stake and role in this, I will make some statements. I originally wrote nearly 900 words of response to several of the criticisms brought up, but that may have been a bit much.
All of the concerns put forth in the criticisms can be alleviated by simply reviewing The Renaissance Vanguard Website and the Renaissance Party North America website. The Three Pillars (Peak Oil, Secession, Ethno-Nationalism), The Ten Principles of Ethno-Nationalism, The RPN Constitution, and the RPN Policy Positions in particular, will address the concerns and criticisms. All of them: ethno-nationalism, peak oil, race, religion, left/right or otherwise, white nationalism and so on.
Instead of copy and pasting back and forth from there to this blog, it is best review these on the RV and RPN websites. I am not interested in going back and forth with critics here regarding our positions. Read it there. Either you get it, or you don’t (or won’t).
Being on the board of the CofCC, (and the A3P at one time) has led me to the conclusion that American WNism has become is ts own worst enemy in many ways. So from my perspective, pointing out and distancing ourselves from what we perceive as the toxic elements and drawing in the useful ones is a sound policy.
Welcome Erick. If you want to post that longer comment here, please go ahead; I’ll read it with interest.
@ Lew:
As Erick W., one of the RPN (USA) Steering Committee’s two Co-Chairs, has pointed out, the best thing to do to answer your question is to read the material, from the generic Mission Statement, through the legal Constitution, to the hard Policy Positions. That is the order of evolutionary and executive progression over a three-year period. Otherwise, directly relative to concerns raised post-TWV interview and this thread, you may wish to specifically read the draft introductory chapter of a book-in-progress, “Casus Belli: The Politics of Blood and Oil”, and the essay entitled, “The NAmerikan White Nationalist Movement as Race Traitors: The Great Delusion.”
Btw, the RPN (USA) is on the verge of being incorporated; paper work is in progress to all concerned, the Steering Committee and invited Founding Directors will then actually become the RPN (USA). We shall then constitute one continental voice functioning under a common Mission Statement, Constitutions (tweaked where necessary to recognize different legal and political jurisdictions, and by-laws, also tweaked likewise to recognize the latter. Serious, highly recognized and respected players are waiting in the wings.
The primary objective for the Party is to politick specifically at the federal level on behalf of continental White Euros in concert with other ethno-racial stakeholders, in concert with regional secessionist movements/parties, to determine a negotiated carving up of the two industrial, carcass nation-states towards autonomous ethno-states. Most Murkan White Nationalist, pretend, week-end Ethno-Nationalists will have shit conniptions. Their pretence comes nowhere near to our actual perceptions and efforts. Secession is not rah-rah, jingoistic cause; it is effect of energy devolution; it is a thermodynamic and scientific given. Why else would FEMA have already prepared pre-9/11 (just like Patriot) its designation of ten regions of administration?
Are we “cuckolding” Murkan White Nationalism? Yes. It is a terribly flawed, juvenile, and now redundant political philosophy. It deserves to be “cuckolded.” It cannot make the next crucial and necessary transition; it cannot realistically and sanely best represent the interests of continental White Euros. To think that a crass, backward-looking racial politics is the only game in town is ludicrous. As per our Vesica Piscis meta-strategy, we are only interested in gaining support from a fraction of Murkan White Nationalists, those who “get it” and those who can cut it. The rest can go blow. Murkan White Nationalism is merely one more ideological/political demographic that is historically prime for our ideological raid. The panicking Murkan clown, Matt Parrott, is correct. I am not “one of you” although I am very much Germanic and a White Euro.
The timeline is 20 years in order to properly position the RPN as an effective Third Position to BEGIN to challenge and halt the Globalist mandate. That is now the window-of-opportunity. We have one shot, and one shot only. It must be true to its mark. If it misses and goes astray, it goes astray forever. And forever happens to be a very long time. Given the horrid scenarios of energy devolution, there will be opportunity only minus any and all guarantees.
We do not advocate for the continental White Euro Race. We advocate for the remnants of the continental White Euro Race. There is absolutely nothing left to save, as per soft revisionists and patriotards, and everything to re-invent. Maybe. There are no guarantees nor freebies.
On a personal level, my objective is to live long enough to ensure that the vehicle is properly constructed, and contribute towards and witness the opening stages in 20 years +/- time.
Reading those texts you mention would require time and effort. I’d like to listen more interviews like the one linked in the above entry.
Matt,
Despite the above “street fight” would you ask Greg to interview Sebastian? I know it’s audacious but I am too lazy to go into the complex literature that he points out as must-reads to understand his party. Or perhaps Robert Stark could do it? (To me it is enough to listen the debates in Martenson’s site, though of course he is not a racialist.)
Sebastian,
You did well in that interview. You are more eloquent in speaking than in writing and I hope to listen many more interviews of you.
Cheers to you both.
Chechar, four interviews dating from April 23rd can be found here. I have another one happening on July 3 with Imperium Europa. It will be the counter to having gotten jumped on by Joe/John. I look forward to it. After than, within the month, will come another interview with another Black Nationalist.
http://rpnamerica.com/video-room/videos/
I have already delivered a standing offer to discuss his and my positions on a platform of his choosing. He has rejected the offer.
Thank you for the response. I’m reading through the RPNAmerica web site now. It has a lot on chew on regarding ethno-nationalism, secession, problems with American WNism, and these topics in general.
I don’t get the need to make Peak Oil impact on the ecology the foundation of the program, but maybe that will become clearer upon further reading. I may return here and resume discourse if you and Chechar are open to it.
Just to make a few random observations, personally, I’m impressed by the fact you have a real legal group, with real people, and a specific program with positions, goals and statements. There is some constructive fervor in those positions. Even if they’re not presently attainable, they at least make it clear where your group stands and what it is for. I have long disagreed with how American WNist organizations don’t make concrete demands that make it clear what they are for. Or, if they do make them, their demands are tepid or based on conservative assumptions (ex: the A3P platforms).
Also, I don’t want to bullshit you, and I know you don’t care what some random internet commeter says anyway, but I’ll give to you straight since it’s open comments. While you and your project are brand new to me and I want to give it a fair hearing, Matt Parrot’s criticisms of you and the way you argued with him here make me suspicious of you. His views aren’t my views on some things. On a lot of things, they are. But going off my own experience, I’ve followed his writings for a couple of years and exchanged words with him a few times on various points of disagreement and have never found him to be anything but honest.
Re “I don’t get the need to make Peak Oil impact on the ecology the foundation of the program.”
Energy devolution is the given; all else, racial politics inclusive, adapts to this game changer. No one, not White, Black, Yellow, Brown, Red, straight, gay, male, female, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., etc. gets to dodge this bullet. No one. In one way or another, it impacts on all lives and shapes all events. The Second Law is the assassin of the modern age.
Lew,
Watch Mike Ruppert’s clip embedded above to see why energy devolution will be pivotal for WN in this century. Just remember the slogan, “Billions will die, we will win!”
What a bellony. If peak oil existed, and it does not, it would be the best thing happening to whites. If in Europe we would, even as early as this year, 2013, suddenly runout of oil and have to return to ancient ways prior 1914 we would just comply with it, be inventive just, like germany started from scratch over and over again, like it did when it was wiped of the map in 1945, in 1955 it was rebuild. It would be THE END OF GLOBALISATION, and thus the end of immigration, the end of outsorucing, the return of handcrafitng and agriculture.
It would send back all aliens in no time, as there would be no economical benefit to stay here, colder winter and harder unassisted physical work would be non attraction at all.
I have followed SebRon on facebook a while before I got censured there. He is always bashing whites, murkans as he calls him, or nazis, he is always mocking those who name the jew, he is never sincerly upset about te fate of whites anywhere, he just sees it as proof of how dumb they are. His programm is so extensive and intensily intelectually overcomplicated to fool people, I never got farther than the 1st page. A good programm holds in 25 points.
As for Chechar, on this argument, it is like with the holocaust, suddenly you have no own mindset, you just give and quote, at the same time stating the weirdest things I would say could only come out of the mouth of a jew or a biblical extremist :
“”
I want justice of Biblical proportions fall over the Murkans.””
You and SEb defintiely hate the white race. Why would you want to preserve by secceeding??
Oh, look! It’s yet one more anonymous “Wolf” farting in cyberspace. How utterly radical.
Wolf,
In other WDH threads you called me jew. You are pushing me to adopt for WDH Linder’s rule for VNN: ban every anonymous commenter who cries “jew”, “pedophile” etc, on those other commenters who are posting in good faith and with their real names, as Ronin and I are doing. Take this as your very last warning.
Chechar I hate to show my white pawn as we say in my land but you know very well I am a fan of your blog, as it is well researched, well written, estethically beautiful, and I discovered some gems here, currently Gibbon and in the past I enjoyed your writings on cannibalism among aztecs which were a real eye opener to me.
But if you arouse now and then suspicion it is just you are hopping onto topics you keep on hammering that much that it becomes suspicious. If you write on every paragraph it is not the jews fault (in your words “our demise is not ‘only’ because of the jews”), you can easily imagine that others start having second thoughts. In WN we have to be suspicious about everyone as so often a hidden agenda comes out. You do yourself the same thing with homosexuality among CC posters.. The same for Ronin who constantly bashes ‘murkans’ to the point one wonders why he is bothering of saving such a dumb ‘race’, and in this he portrays the typical leftist elite thinker who hates his Folk (unlike national socialists who love their kind just wish to educate them :-), we all have some strain that emerges from our posting.
Ronin dear I’m being anonymous as in the country where I live you go to prison for 1 year if you name the jew. As in almost all european tribal homelands of the white race
But that’s one of the many problems you do not wish to address, that an international elite is controling the game, energy included. You do not answer any question of Matt Parrot and you do not any of my issues here above with the obvious one being that a major oil crisis isthe biggest blessing white europe can have right now, as it will cut globalition right there, and we will return to the things we europeans, dutch and germans are best in, craftmanship and animal husbandry and we will rule the world, got it!?
As for peak oil this video destroys all : more oil goes up in smoke every single day than we consume, why would that be? While they could save all the gas if the wished to. Well maybe BigOil doesn not care as they know hpw much they have left and you don’t.
Ronin I sincerely hope peak oil will come out during your lifetime as you are putting so many eggs in the same basket, if not well you can go live as a hermite in the woods (you do already?)
peak oil > gas flarings, more than, the world can consume here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzj3rEUEXoo
And the voluntary oil spills are going at teh same time.
And yes Shell was founded by jews who founded the East Indies Company, but hey who cares.
Pedestrian understanding of thermodynamics. But hey, who cares?
Wolf:
So you are a monocauslalist, aren’t you?
[…] June 24th, The West’s Darkest Hour blog came out in open and full support of the Renaissance Party of North America, especially re the […]
Re
You are obviously ignorant of the RPN’s philosophy, Constitution, and Policy Positions. Please educate yourself and then see how far your rag carries.
César, the link is dead. But if I would choose a side based on the argument (or shitstorm) here, I would side with Seb’s opponents. Simply because they were far more sane, and didn’t go full ad hominem. But I have barely any idea about this, so my opinion shouldn’t really matter.
I can see Matt Parrott’s argument in that the peak oil and the crash of the dollar would be the best events for the White Man. It would annihilate our opponents, and extreme conditions would awaken our race from slumber. Therefore, in my mind, we should be prepared for the worst scenario, where the lords of the West take he situation under their control. Can you really not imagine new types of energy to have already been developed but to be kept secret til the right moment? And do you think if the dollar is replaced by the ruble or yuan/renminbi, it will change anything? Isn’t Russia owned by the Jews and enthralled by the same values of Christianity? I would call them the eastern _liberal_ block, a different kind of the same shit.
And then, it’s the universal truth that the West is consuming a large part of the world’s energy. I wouldn’t call it far-stretched that the underdeveloped nations of colour could easily sustain themselves at the expense of us.
Presently I’ve changed my views about Ronin’s party, especially after he and his team subscribed feminism. In fact, the gulf that has been opened between us is such that I’ll now add a disclaimer at the bottom of this old entry.
The entry’s links are dead, yes; one of them because I eliminated Matt Heimbach (and many others) from the category list.
I don’t believe in the conspiracy theories you hint. If alternative forms of energy are found, e.g., in nuclear fusion, that would be a calamity for the fair race.
Thanks for the clarification! I’m only beginning browsing through all these articles.
Yeah, it would be unpleasant. I would say, if there will be no drop in the standard of living soon enough, any existing White Nationalists would better cause it. Migrants might help as well. But that’s pure speculation.
It’s a shame that the podcast appears to be lost in the memory hole.
Back in mid-2013, I told Seb…
As they’ve nearly all done, one-by-one.
http://www.gasbuddy.com/US
Re “especially after he and his team subscribed feminism”
That’s not true, but you’re more than welcome to entertain it if you wish. This deception is actually a tad lame relative to a lot of the other garbage that has been floated. Women are coming into the NSPNA. This is a problem? Some have bigger balls than most White Nationalist men. Slowly, slowly, we are winning…while very quickly Murkan White Nationalism is losing. The London Forum speech was a watershed. Murros and I piss on its grave. ALL nationalism is Ethno Nationalism.
The Radio Renaissance, Podcast #7, August 30, 2015 endorses feminism. In the most interesting moment of the podcast you said that we got to distinguish between “women liberation” and “feminism”! Like WNsts, your party wants to have it both ways: liberalism and racial preservation.
In my Tuesday post I’ll quote Brothermattiex in an entry mentioning that among racists only The Daily Stormer and this site make sense regarding the “liberation” of women.
Re “I can see Matt Parrott’s argument in that the peak oil and the crash of the dollar would be the best events for the White Man.”
Are you fuckin’ kidding me? ROFLMAO! ROFLMAO! ROFLMAO!
Re we got to distinguish between “women liberation” and “feminism”
Yeah, so what is it exactly that you don’t understand?
“Women liberation” is Newspeak for “feminism”.
Been following you for a long while, Chechar. Actually thought your prose was excellent for a while. You preach reason and logic but I’ve been rather disappointed in your narrow mindedness recently. That you would be okay with Anglin’s view of women, a pseudo-intellectual, who fools no intellectuals other than yourself, and says that women are no better than Jews? LOL. Anglin supports his claim by using quotes from ancient Greek pederasts. He then goes on with more angst from not being able to get a date from pretty white women, lol. Shameful, really, and pathetic. Want to talk about women and their role in revolution historically and contemporary? I’ll be happy too. I am being kind here in my commentary, I assure you. I await your reasoned and intelligent response.
You are a woman?
Never I have said that you gals are no better than Jews, only that by thinking liberally with your emotions, “liberated” woman and their feminism has been a weapon of mass destruction for the West.
This thread is already too long. Wait until Tuesday to see my final post on feminism.